Head back to school/uni without breaking the bank & a history lesson on money.


The following is a transcript taken from episode 14 of the We Talk Cents podcast. You can listen to this episode here.

Blaize Pengilly  00:09

Personal Finance budgeting cash flow and investing don't have to be scary words the We Talk Cents podcast is here to help you learn more about money and take control of your personal finance


Blaize Pengilly  00:27

This podcast is not a financial advisor .The podcast is made for entertainment and educational purposes only. All information shared is of a general nature and does not take into account your personal situation. You should consider whether the information is appropriate for your needs and where appropriate seek professional advice from a financial advisor


Dan Jovevski  00:45

for more information please check out Wemoney.com/disclaimer today.


Dan Jovevski  00:52

Welcome to another instalment of We Talk Cents a podcast presented by WeMoney as always, we're joined by me Dan your finance guru.


Blaize Pengilly  00:59

And me Blaize you're recovering spendaholid, shopaholic, recovering spending addict. Today we are talking about saving on school supplies, how you can stock up on everything you need to go back to school and uni without breaking the bank. And very on trend. We have a teacher joining us. His name is Joel he is the history of money from TikTok to chat all things cash and currency. First up, let's talk news. So if you'd rather skip the headlines, no worries at all. Just skip ahead about four minutes and you'll get to meet our guests. Dan, news headlines what caught your attention last week


Dan Jovevski  01:38

Well Blaize what caught my attention last week was the deluge of offers that people got on credit cards and balance transfer offers. I think that now credit card companies will see the ability of all the opportunity of people that have overspent over Christmas and looking to potentially acquire new business very, very attractive rates. So that was something that I got bombarded with in my email inbox. How about you?


Blaize Pengilly  02:04

Dan, before we move on what what is a zero?What are you saying a balance transfer is? I'm assuming this is a credit card product


Dan Jovevski  02:11

Blaize a balance transfer offer is what credit card companies do to win the business. And the way they do that is say if you've got a credit card balance of say, $5,000 you're paying an average interest rate of around, say 24.99% or even as high as 29.99% Yeah, it's pretty high, you may be able to transfer that balance so say you've got $5,000 maxed out on a $5,000 credit card, you can transfer that to another credit card, that map has no limit or even more and pay 0% interest on that balance for say over a period of say 12 to 18 months and that helps people save obviously on the balance out so the interest on the credit card, but the major driver for a lot of banks and the reason why they offer those products is they will know that you will not pay that balance off in full and then there's an opportunity for them to make money over time. So that's probably one of the biggest the biggest forms of customer growth that a lot of banks see during this time is giving people those balance transfer offers so if you're a person that's in that situation only think twice about doing it obviously if it makes financial sense for you please explore but put a plan in place to make sure that credit card gets paid off in full because if you leave the balance you may have to pay all the interest again and again and again and that can obviously lead to a lot of bad outcomes if you don't make all those payments and more importantly you end up paying 1000s of dollars of interest unnecessarily.


Blaize Pengilly  03:49

Very interesting so the 0% is really just a hook in the sea and credit card customers wanting to switch and save money on interest rates are the fish swimming around looking for that nice bit of bait on the end which is what they're offering it sounds like.


Dan Jovevski  04:04

I couldn't have said it better myself, was quite analogy.


Blaize Pengilly  04:06

Dan the headline that I found this week. Oh my gosh, it it makes me both laugh and cringe. Are you ready for this? I want your real honest reaction. I hope you haven't seen it yet because oh my god.


Dan Jovevski  04:20

I'm ready Blaize, hit me.


Blaize Pengilly  04:21

This is straight from nine news.com You ready?American programmer has to password attempts left to access his Bitcoin now worth $300 million.


Dan Jovevski  04:37

Oh, my goodness.


Blaize Pengilly  04:40

Doesn't that just make you cringe? So according to the article, he forgot his password. Obviously. The bitcoin wallet had allowed him to have 10 attempts. He's made eight of those attempts. And so now he has only two tries left before it encrypts and there's a quote from him in the article that says he lays in bed Night just thinks about it. And he's super stuck. Well, what are you even doing that situation I forget my password on a daily basis, it feels like I feel for the guy.


Dan Jovevski  05:12

Well Blaize if I was him, the things that are going through my mind at the moment and how important it remembering that would be, the first thing I would do is I would go see hypnotist and try to extract it in some way, shape or form that gives you the best chances. Or even what I would do is I don't know how these crypto wallets work. But, you know, if you've really came getting it, is there any way that you can maybe get from the company or give somebody like $100 million bounty to maybe like get on your behalf on a $300 million.


Blaize Pengilly  05:44

That is so much money.


Dan Jovevski  05:47

It's life changing that would like that's obscene, obscene money, that if you lost that, God, I know what I think your opening line at parties would be I'm the guy that was 300million dollars. It reminds me of that story of a guy that I think was a similar amount, this is going back to 2017. So I actually think this is probably this number is probably gonna be even bigger now. That a guy that threw away a computer in the tip. And this is 2017 numbers, he had $127 million with a Bitcoin. And he paid a company to go and grab an excavator to excavate piles and piles of garbage is a tip to see if they could find his computer.Obviously, it wasn't successful. But oh my goodness, I think people are willing right now that that you got to be possible, particularly when there's so much crypto on the line.


Blaize Pengilly  06:44

Oh my gosh, I wonder what his password is? Is it just the regular? Like, yeah, name of your first pet like, read Rosie's 3.2or whatever it is? Or is he has he got the like, capital P nine zero underscore space like that. Anyway, that that caught my attention this week. And hopefully, good luck to him two attempts. Hopefully he maybe sees a hypnotist and that works for him, we shall see. And then I do have one one more thing to share. It's not quite news, but it's something I learned from last week. So last week, I was saying how I received some Christmas cash. And because I use neo-banks, I couldn't find a way to deposit it. Well, I did some research. And I found a solution you can deposit but it's through Australia parts so you can head to the post office and deposit that way. So there is a solution. albeit not the easiest or most convenient thing as Australia Post has very short opening hours for someone that works full time. But there is a solution. So I'm very happy with that.


Dan Jovevski  07:45

That's good Blaize. That's a great tip for people that are considering near banks. And you know what? My post office is actually closer than any bank that I bank with. So that's that's actually pretty convenient.


Blaize Pengilly  07:55

Oh, Lucky you. Now Should we get into the rest of the episode Dan?


Dan Jovevski  07:58

Let's do it Blaize.


Blaize Pengilly  08:04

The time has come a lot of full timers have left their thongs at the door and had to dan on real pants and clothes again and head back into the real world as full time work started back up for a lot of us around the country last week. Now for kids around the country and uni students, your time is about to follow suit. It's back to school time. And we're not far off being back to uni or TAFE either, which is why we thought today we'd take a look at how to head back to school head back to uni get all your supplies without breaking the bank. So Dan, I have a question for you and my understanding of a two year old so this is probably more of a guest from you rather than experience unless he's a really really smart kid. And he's like in year four already and has skipped a bunch of grades. Is he a child genius Dan?


Dan Jovevski  08:51

Well if you say child genius on struggling a ladder to get to the top shelf to steal the cookies then yeah, he's an absolute genius. He's actually 3 now Blaize. And guess what he's heading into kindy in a month's time. So this couldn't be more relevant to my own personal journey andI've done a bit of research so it should be interesting to see how this all compares. I remember my childhood going back to school look, God bless my parents with what they had for me and my sister at the time, but it's it's actually a big deal. Now the back to school thing is advertised on TV and there's endless ads about it. It's a full blown event that you know moms, dads, everyone has to go through to get the kids ready to get back to school. It's a huge affair.


Blaize Pengilly  09:34

Yeah, for sure. Dan, how much on average Do you think Australian parents are spending on each kid when it comes to stocking upon school supplies?


Dan Jovevski  09:47

This is going to shock people because yes HB one pencils cost 90 cents, but then you add in the pencil case you add in the ruler why yet Add in the glue stick, it adds up. It's a shocking, on average that people that spend about $590 on school supplies per child in 2021, which is an increase of $54 from the previous year, which is an absolute monumental. Number one, you really think about it. And you know what, that's the end and cost. And most kids that are going through regular pre primary to high school, those costs end up increasing over time.


Blaize Pengilly  10:28

That's crazy. $592. Now, from Okay, as a school kid, I would not have believed $592 per kid. But seeing as I remember it being it's extra into my brain many years ago, when I went to uni, one of my textbooks was over a single textbook for one unit for one semester was over$200. And that that pretty much almost killed me. That was essentially what I was making in a week back at the time when I was working in a car wash. So 592bucks sounds like a lot for school kids. But in my mind, not a lot for uni students, given that textbooks can really, really add up and be really, really expensive. Then school students, if you've got kids going back to school, what's what are some What are some ways to save? How can we save on going back to school,


Dan Jovevski  11:25

But if you take a leaf out of my mom's book, almost 20 years ago, what she did, was had a look at the price list for the school uniform, and quickly threw it in the bin, walked away and got the finished, as cheap as polyester shirt that closely resembled the school colour. And there you go, me and my sister were with it, were the ones that you can easily spot in school photos, because we have like four shades of blue from the uniform. But if you don't want your kids to be a social outcast, and cough up for the school uniform, on average, parents will spend about 130 bucks to close the kids in the school uniform, which is a huge amount they're growing quickly, you'll end up using it for once or twice 100 bucks, it's a lot of money,


Blaize Pengilly  12:13

It is a lot of money. How can we save money on that? What are your tips?


Dan Jovevski  12:20

My tip is that a lot of people would have the school uniform department at the school, just go buy the secondhand ones, right?Or try to find a hand me down for other, you know, parents that you know with kids that have sort of grown out of their clothing that's sitting in their wardrobes doing nothing but collecting dust and make a big appeal to people that you know within the school because chances are you probably will find parents with even the sheer generosity depending on how friendly you are with them. And actually give them to you for free if they can tell us even more. Orc heck out the second hand shops because you know what? Why pay 180 bucks, we can probably pay about half of that or even less by getting, the secondhand ones and the clothes. Yes, the kids are gonna scuff them up and do the math. But if they make it to be sold, the secondhand pile, just have a look. And they're just good as new. And you can save yourself a lot of money probably give your kids something else is probably beneficial than you know buying those brand crisp new school uniforms.


Blaize Pengilly  13:18

Yeah, yeah, good. Good advice. My school my entire school uniform. I don't think I had a single thing brand new. Except for hats because I regularly lost those and had to either borrow them from lost property or get my mum to buy me a new one. But everything I had was all secondhand. And it doesn't matter. You know, it's it really doesn't matter as long as as long as all the bits are covered and got the school crest or everything, whatever you need on it. Yeah, for sure. Also, I saw, I saw some advertising, I think it was best and less the other day, but they were doing a discount on school clothes, or some sort of buyback program. I'm not 100%across it because I'm not going to school. So but that's something worth checking out and seeing if any, if you do need to buy a brand new, if you can get it cheaper anywhere else, or if there's any buyback programs or any cash back programs on offer.


Dan Jovevski  14:08

Yeah, absolutely. Blaize I think the first thing to do for all parents do a stock check of what you've already got. If you have a look at that list of things that you need to give the kids you know, the parents the school often insist that you get everything perfectly but you know what the pencils or pencil or red pens, red pen you've got those stuff at home.There's no point paying for stuff that you've already got. And making your point of finishing pens. You know how many pins do that collecting on Oh, I'm probably guilty of this. Oh my gosh bucket of them. I'm actually using actually one right now that I plan to live out. It's full life. And I'm almost there. I got it from IKEA for $1. And it is possibly a long time. But you know what your kids are not going to mind if they're using pins. So wherever you can save money, just do it. Go down that list. And just don't worry about keeping up with the Joneses or making sure that your kids are the stands out, your kid is not going to remember this period of time. And you're probably going to have things that probably better than what's on the school list anyway. So just use the stuff you've already got.


Blaize Pengilly  15:16

Dan, that's an interesting point you make about finishing pens, because pens, I treat pens, like lip balm, I buy a new one, I start using it, I'm loving it, and then all of a sudden, it's completely disappeared, and I haven't finished it. So finishing stuff, definitely. And also, taking stock of everything you have, is also good for the environment. It not only like it doesn't only save your money from buying new things, but it can keep stuff out of landfill. And yet can can help you live a more sustainable life, and any good impact on the environment I'm totally for. So I support that. What's another tip for saving on school supplies, Dan?


Dan Jovevski  15:54

Do research and find the best prices I mean, often your school gives you like a recommended list of things. And if there's things that you can get that might be alternatives, then have a look around because often the school supplier that is often recommended or used meant to be the most competitive, and you might be able to find a better and cheaper prices out there that are not from the recommended supplier where you be able to getaway with getting something a lot cheaper, I would also have a look at the quality of things rather than the quantity. Because sometimes it might be some stuff that you want to give your kids that may be very cheap. But you got to ask yourself the question, is it a $15 pair of shoes going to last one semester or two semesters or I'm gonna have to go back to the shops and buy it again?You know, sometimes it actually doesn't make sense if you really believe that a brand that you trust that you know, will last a long time probably been to in business and it's going to last a long time I'll always get up. Again, the things that can often run out of quality. And I think I'm gonna speak of a lot of mums and dads here. I think the craze that has taken over schools is lunchboxes. Are you familiar with this new lunchbox craze blows?


Blaize Pengilly  17:03

I have absolutely no idea. Are lunch boxes cool?


Dan Jovevski  17:09

Oh my god, lunch boxes are so cool. And if you don't have the hippest lunch box, you are going to be the odd one out apparently according to some kids. The new craze down lunch boxes is basically. this new phenomenon of what's been termed bento lunchbox and it's made of this super hard plastic or sometimes even metal that's like coated with some type of special material that basically compartmentalises everything for your child. So you can compartmentalise their Sanga, their fruit, the little yogurt, whatever else and you can customise it. For people who are fans of blue either cartoon there's like Bluey lunchboxes. And do you want to take a stab at how much these things cost?


Blaize Pengilly  17:52

I don't even want to think about it. What happened to the brown paper bag?


Dan Jovevski  17:56

What happened to the glad wrap? just chucked it in your backpack?


Blaize Pengilly  18:06

I'm gonna say like 20 bucks for a lunchbox


Dan Jovevski  18:11

$49.95 for a large personalised bento bluey lunchbox, this is insane.


Blaize Pengilly  18:19

Oh my gosh, I know that this is an audio medium, but I would like you all to know at home that I am cringing right now.That is ridiculous. A note on then I had a thought about researching finding the best prices and getting quality over quantity. Could you use programs like Shopback or you know, Shopback the app we buy through the app and then you can get cash back based on your purchases. It'd be great to see if you can get school supplies through apps like that. And then you can actually earn money back on your purchases as well when you're doing your research.


Dan Jovevski  18:54

Oh, yes. 100% that's so true. I think this explosion of all these platforms like cash back cash rewards Shopback is probably 10,000 of them out there. And basically, for those who aren't familiar with it with those platforms is as long as you use the referral codes or go and shop for the product using these apps you can get you know sometimes up to 15%back on your purchase if you spend a certain amount that's an excellent way for people to save a lot of money.


Blaize Pengilly  19:19

Yeah, awesome. I've had an idea Dan on how to save on back to school. But it is stolen and I stole an idea last week but we just have really really wise guests. So this is a this is an idea stolen from Saurav Dutta He came and spoke to us about the four common debt traps. Shop solo. Everybody said going shopping solo can help you save money because you're not there surrounded by your friends going oh You look gorgeous in that. But in this case, it's you're not surrounded by your kids going I really really need this $49 lunchbox. I really really need this brand new set of textures or whatever it is. So my input for how to save on back to school would be take this rather take Saurav's advice, and shop solo and avoid pester power by doing it alone?


Dan Jovevski  20:10

Absolutely. That's a really good little last thing you want to do kids saying, Can I have that? Can I have that. And especially if you're going into the aisles of Kmart, and everything costs, like one or $2, or three bucks, you're more than likely to completely overspend, that is awesome. The past. Do you know what I did this year, because I thought to myself, I'm not going to get caught up this battle school revolution, what Idid is I only ordered the critical items that I couldn't find anywhere else. And I didn't online, so didn't have to go to the shops with my little one to actually go through the point of finding the stuff because I knew he would have asked me for certain things or really been, you know, potentially a pain, as we're sort of going through and figuring out what to actually get in. And it was, it was all the easy breezy experience online, everything arrived within two weeks, and he's ready to go.


Blaize Pengilly  21:00

That's awesome. I didn't realiSe what you have to get stuff at kindy as well. This is crazy. This is like so many years of buying supplies for kids from them being so young, all the way up through TAFE or uni, anyway. And any final bits of advice on how to save if you're sending your school kids back to school


Dan Jovevski  21:23

Blaize I would say one of the most common ones that people often forget about is yes, you're getting those points for your flybys or your reward program. But a lot of those reward programs might actually allow you to buy certain stuff for your kids. So for example, you may actually have the ability to use a your fly by points for the reward points to buy from shops that are focused on back to school, stuff like that. Kids clothes or kids shoes, that often people forget about as they've done all thatChristmas shopping, spend probably 1000s of dollars on things at say Coles orWoolies or other places. But realising Hey, probably a good time to do some of those points might be actually back to school.


Blaize Pengilly  22:06

Okay, rewards programs, good one


Dan Jovevski  22:09

Blaize one of the best things you can do with this time is, as you're thinking about money and thinking about, okay, you've probably done a good job while listening to financial podcasts while We Talk Cents this is one of the shameless plug. But if you're, if you're if you think about yourself, you think about you know how you had your own money experience.And if those had wonderful money management experiences in your childhoods, that's amazing. But isn't it a really cool time as their brains developing a point of soaking new information to tell them about and educate your kids about the importance of money and money management. And as they're going into school, they're not only learning about shapes and colours, and sentences and grammar, but also about some of the good concepts or concepts around money that you can infuse, in a really fun and exciting way. one parent we were talking to at a really, really great tip, as a kids grew up, what she did was she gamified, the approach of saving on power and electricity. But basically, she would whip out the electricity bill, talk about how much the electricity bill they had to pay, but also talk about the importance of turning off lights without unnecessary turning off things that are on standby that are just sucking electricity, go through some other tips to save money. And basically, as the bill arrived in the next mail, they would see how much money they saved by the activities that they did, by reducing their own utility expenses together as a family. And I think this is a really important time, where you can teach your kids about the importance of money and finances as they go through their early formative years,


BlaizePengilly  23:48

That's a really good idea, setting a budgetwith your kids helping in get like encouraging them and training them andenabling them to make their own decisions and see exactly where it is the moneyis going. That's something that I I kind of wish if I could turn back time Iwish my parents would do with me, rather than just saying, we can't afford thatexplaining why, and then helping you to get a better grasp and understanding ofhow finances work. And that money doesn't just go on trees, like my motheralways used to say to me.


DanJovevski  24:19

And I'm totally guilty of this players are notperfect with money all the time. But one of the big things that I've that I'verealized is that kids understand, and you're not going to let your kids down bysaying that you can't afford something or I know we want to provide the bestfor our children. But there is something very valuable in saying, Hey, we can'tafford this at the moment. But over time, if we end up doing really well this yearwith other things in our life, we may have the ability to save and actually buyand got the money. And what that is telling kids is that there is a pathway togetting what they want by doing things that are valuable. For example, doingchores that can help them save additional money to get the things that theywant that can teach them a lot lessons about the importance of money as opposedto just giving them everything you wanted, because you want to show them withlove and affection.


BlaizePengilly  25:05

Yeah, for sure really teaching the value ofitems rather than just saying yes, no. Can can buy can't buy, Dan. Let's moveon to uni students. So our TAFE students, or if you're doing a course or ifyou're a young adult, and you're or you're returning mature age student,whoever you are, if you're not in school, but you're going back to learn this,yeah, and you need to stock up on staff. What are some ways as an older studentthat you can save, heading back to study


DanJovevski  25:34

Well Blaize, the first piece of advice is gofind one of your mates has got a Costco card, go buy 100 pack of mie Gorgengnoodles and you're set.


BlaizePengilly  25:46

Yeah, that's actually very Yeah, I wish I had aCostco card. And 100 packs of Mie Goreng purely for the taste and like, youknow, cost efficient, yes, but I actually love mie Goreng it's a good idea.


DanJovevski  26:01

I love it once a year, that's the that's my MieGoreng budget for the year was the most Uni Students. And the best thing youcan do is sign upt to  a rewards program.So you've if you haven't heard about all the awesome companies out there thatare helping students like you, there's a huge news site for those platforms,get onto the newsletters, check out their websites, there's gonna be heaps ofsavings for you whether there be discounted computers, discounts on food,discounts other things that are appropriate to your student life. So get ontothose as soon as you can. Because there's no point realizing that you couldhave saved money by using a discount code or voucher when those services areavailable. So Unidays, a Student Edge get on it.


BlaizePengilly  26:42

I do miss the student discount. What else Dan?


DanJovevski  26:45

Textbooks? So this is a big one. Like youmentioned paying what, two 300 bucks for a textbook? Do you remember what itwas? Gosh,


BlaizePengilly  26:53

Yes, I do. Because I am triggered. Do you knowwhat it's actually it's actually embarrassing given this podcast. It was myaccounting textbook. And I had to repeat. So when I say I'm not good withmoney, and I'm a shopaholic and a spendaolic, I really mean it because I'mlike, I'm still scarred from spending that much money on a book for a unit thatI failed and had to repeat. So that's why you're the finance guru in thispodcast. And because you've got way more of an idea than I do.


DanJovevski  27:25

Well, Blaize you know what I mean, I sort ofskimmed it out at uni. And the biggest sort of advice you can get is don't fallinto the trap of buying that nice, shiny brand new textbook that you're gonnause for literally 10 to 12 weeks. Try one find one secondhand Ed professors, Ithink it's an absolute rort, they'll just write a new addition every singleyear, they change the chapters from chapter to chapter 15 year old modeled,even if you get the older editions, it still doesn't really matter. And youknow what, the internet is so powerful these days, all these concepts that youlearn at uni, are going to be open sourced and listen to any specific courseguides, whatever else. But wherever you can buy secondhand get logged into thistrap of buying brand new you don't forget about and to be honest, a lot ofpeople actually forget about all the stuff that you learn at uni. So in thelong run, it may not be critically important to buy something that is brandnew. So secondhand Gumtree eBay, Facebook marketplace, just give it a crackbefore you end up shelling, hundreds of bucks on books that you are going toforget about.


BlaizePengilly  28:25

I wholeheartedly agree secondhand is the best.However, if you happen to be in China and listen to this podcast, maybesecondhand isn't the best because something I learned about seven years ago,from someone, an international student that I studied with was that in China, ifyou are buying a second hand textbook, and it has the person's notes in it fromtheir studies, they actually sell at a higher price, because they've got theyconsidered to have more value. So I thought that was really interesting,because over here we usually sell secondhand for the less berries over there,it's perceived as having more value, because there's more knowledge and morenotes, which I thought was very interesting.


DanJovevski  29:05

That is pretty amazing. And Funny enough, Ijust remembered something. I bought a brand new textbook. And I realized that alot of the information that textbook was actually available online. And I stillhad the plastic cover on the textbook after the unit finished. So sometimes ifyou're really like a little bit suspect about the value of the textbook, youmay wish you needed it or you can find the information online and some of theconcepts you can learn. So yeah, don't get caught in the trap of buying stuffbrand new or they're actually issue really needed as well.


BlaizePengilly  29:40

Awesome. Dan I found a really good program thatif you're a if you're a student, you might be interested in so it's by ANZ It'scalled a saver Plus program. So eligible students can go through a free 10month program. By the way, we're not affiliated with ANZ I just thought thiswas a really great program. And that, if you're interested, it might besomething worth checking out. So essentially, students go through a free 10month program to learn about their finances. The program teaches you how tosave consistently, the goal is to save $500 in a year. If you do the wholeprogram, learn about your finances, show that you consistently save and reachthat $500 target. ANZ will give you $500 to match your savings to be spent onschool supplies or kids. If you have kids. I thought that was a really greatinitiative. It's not available to everyone. So definitely go check out theirwebsite, if it's something that interests you. And you have to be 18 years andolder you have to be studying. There's a lot of different requirements to beeligible, but free $500 and financial education. Like that is a huge win forme. So definitely check it out. If it takes you fancy,


DanJovevski  30:53

$500 bucks, That's some big biccies rightthere. That's quite generous. That is incredibly good. And you know what maybeforce you to say, and you get double the amount. I mean, that's justincredible.


BlaizePengilly  31:06

Yeah. 50% is that 50% interest?


DanJovevski  31:09

No, it's 100% interest.


BlaizePengilly  31:11

That is 100%. Say I don't do math. Again. Dan,do you have any final tips for uni students heading back


DanJovevski  31:22

Blaizethe final part is drop your subscriptions, I'd know that you probably sign upto have a free video on demand services like standard Hulu, because he hadplenty of time off over the semester. But the reality is, if you're a diligentstudent, like most of us are listening to the to the pod is that you probablydon't have the time to go through and keep up with all these descriptions. Sojust get rid of anything that you don't need anything that you got sort oflogged into the break any Promo The activity clicked on and subscribe for justget rid of it. The last thing you want to be doing is having your bank accountbeing eroded away over the semester or the term where you're spending a lot ofmoney on things that you don't need. So this is a great time of the year toreview always not using.


BlaizePengilly  32:05

Yeah, great. Well, that's all about back toschool or back to uni back to TAFE wherever you're heading back to withoutbreaking the bank tips. Now, if any of these tips were interesting to you, oryou have a friend or family member that may benefit from these, please do us afavor and share this podcast episode with them. It really helps us when we'remaking the podcast and we love knowing that we're out there helping people tosave money financially. So check us a like, subscribe and share it with friendsand family. We'd really appreciate it.


BlaizePengilly  32:39

Hey, Dan


DanJovevski  32:41

Hey Blaize


BlaizePengilly  32:41

what to do in high school history?


DanJovevski  32:45

Oh, goodness. Let me just remember about highschool. That's that's that was a bit of a blur.


BlaizePengilly  32:50

Cast your mind back past


DanJovevski  32:53

High school history. I don't usually think Ieven took history in high school believe it or now Blaize. I think it wascalled Social Studies. At the time, I think we learned about World War Two. Welearn about Australian history. But it's becoming a blur. How about you?


BlaizePengilly  33:10

I also can't even remember if I took history,which is probably if I did take history. I apologize to my history teacherbecause I can't remember anything. The only history that I remember from schoolis learning about the gold rush. But the reason I am asking about history isbecause today we have a very special guest. He's a high school teacher thatknows a lot about the history of money, which is probably something that is nottaught in school. And if you can't remember it, Dan, we taught the history ofmoney in school. No, I


DanJovevski  33:43

Don't think I was I think I think I've heardabout little bits and pieces of it. Post high school but I certainly wasn'twasn't taught in high school.


BlaizePengilly  33:50

I definitely didn't learn about the history ofmoney. I mean gold, the Gold Rush pretty close, but definitely not the historyof money. So today's guest is a high school teacher that shares his knowledgeon subjects including economics, business management, and accounting tostudents mostly in year 11 and 12. He's completed a Bachelor of Commerce and aBachelor of economics at the University of Western Australia, and has over 10years of experience managing a family business. Plus, he's generously donatedhis time and skills as treasurer for two different and not for profitorganizations. He's an avid traveler. In fact, in the lead up to COVID, he wason a plane 87 times in the three years leading up to COVID, which is prettyremarkable. And I'm very envious of all of the frequent flyer points. I'm surehe's amassed. Not only that he in 2020, he started a Tiktok page, educatingothers on the history of money. As I'm sure you can tell, he's passionate aboutbusiness and money. And he joins us now via video links. Talk about exactlythat. Welcome Joel Kandiah. Hi, Joel. How you going?


JoelKandiah  34:54

Yeah, good. Thanks for having me on.


BlaizePengilly  34:57

Thanksfor joining us, Joel. Joel. Now you're a school teacher. That's a must be theenvy of all of your mates right now because you have the luxurious extendedschool holidays.


JoelKandiah  35:06

Yes, it's a great perk, but also, we work hardfor it. So a lot of my friends claimed I don't do enough work, but that's fine.As long as it's six weeks off, that's great to do what I want, especiallymaking more TikToks, which is great fun to do.


DanJovevski  35:22

TikTok amazing, I think we've seen the rise ofthe fintokker and the influencer community of everybody tend to TikTok as aform of education, particularly now during COVID. As everyone's been shorterget home and not really having the ability to go out and about and TikTok hasreally taken off and given people the opportunity not just to watch cool, youknow, funky videos to Taylor Swift background music, but also to learn aboutfinances. We'd love to hear your story about how you got into tiktok and moreimportantly, your background in the history of money would love to learn more?


JoelKandiah  35:55

Um, yeah, I don't take it up pretty much like alot of millennials did during lockdown at first lockdown in mid March where Allright, we're at home we can't really do much maybe apart from Eat Drinkexercise a little bit. And it's like, in my feed my students before lockdownsettle this thing called TikTok. It's very fun to do dances and stuff and soforth to try to have a look at it. And yeah, it was great dances, dances,dances, like I can't do any of that stuff. And then I saw a few interestinghistory things a few, you know, economics, things like especially planet money,have a very good TikTok account which are based from NPR in the United States.So they do a really good Tiktok account. Okay, maybe I can try something. And Idid one on the history of the $5. No, no, actually, no. Before that, I was hada video from a couple years ago, I was in Canberra, in front of ParliamentHouse. And I had a $5 note and I've looked at it, and I've panned the screen upto Parliament House and go, Ah, there you go. And then that sort of went alittle bit viral, good luck, a few 1000 likes pretty quickly. And then I didwonder history to find all night. And that would blow up within a couple ofdays as well. So okay, there's there's a niche for people wanting to know aboutthe history of money, because people don't really know people don't look at thecoins and notes really said, oh, here's some money, I'll go pay. Or evennowadays, don't even look at the money. I don't just like a card that go.That's it done. So I guess that's sort of stems from my hobbies back as a kidwhen I was collecting notes and coins and stamps and my friends making a lot offun of me, Joel, You're so weird, Jole, why are you so like, this is so niche,about these kinds of things. But, you know, there's there is, andunfortunately, like, coin collecting, note collecting is a dying hobby which alot of the boomers were into, because that's sort of the thing that you'll growinto. And so, another Australian, it's been trying hard to get kids intocollecting again, that kind of thing has float, okay, how can I keep this sortof hobby alive, while educating people about the linkages and the relevance ithas in their life? And so been doing that for last Well, now six to eightmonths now. And it's, it's done quite well, I used to run a food blog, which,you know, for about seven years and that never, never really took off. But thenalso on this TikTok up to let us say, nearly 2,500 followers 93,000 likes, Iwas like, This is crazy. So there's, there's a nice short ism, there's peoplewant to know about it. And so it's great for once in my life, I don't feel likethe weirdo, my friend group, and don't want to be like me now.


BlaizePengilly  38:22

That's amazing. Oh, you know what that makes methink of it's the people that have kids that have weird hobbies, or not weirdhobbies, but kids that are teased for having being into music or having acollection or whatever other people that grew up to be they're reallyinteresting and cool adults. But as a kid, you like getting teased for it. Andthen as an adult, all of the most interesting people I know the people that arereally passionate about something and have weird hobbies. But I'm curious. Soyou mentioned the history of the $5 note. What is the history of the $5 note?


JoelKandiah  38:57

Um, that stems in let's go back like to 1967.So not in 66, we moved from pounds, shillings and pence to dollars and cents,right, we went from an in a pre decimal to decimal system. When the decimalnotes came out, it was only the one to 10 and 20, they did not release the fiveuntil a year after because there's no equivalent note in the predictablesystem, which was, which would be the equivalent of two pounds in 10 shillings.So it's an equivalent note predictable. So they released a $5 note after as agap between the 210 and that was a paper note that kept in circulation untilabout 1992. Were to introduce the first circulating proper circulating polymerfive donor now you might remember it was like a pail ish funnel and no, it waslike the old following. We had mantle previously, but it was a lot of bluepinkish purplish color. And the problem was with that note, people gettingconfused with the $10 knife for some reason, which was released to you light in1993. And so the big confusion so 99 five for The Reserve Bank decided torecolour it to a more like a pinkish fuchsia color which more a lot morebrighter. Which distinct gap between the five the 10 and the  20. And the 50, which was also released in95. And then there's the 100 was released in 96. Then in 2001, really samescenario Federation 5 dollar note, it was sort of Henry parks in the front andKevin Hill and Spence in the back that was, that lasted for a couple of years.And they there was a back to their circulation 2005. And then obviously, in2016, we started a new series of banknotes from next generation banknote, whichwas they decided to keep the same features a little older banknotes, and the $5was first was released on September 26, things are still kept Queent on thefront, still kept Parliament House in the back, but the designs are moreprominent. And I kept a they they're the only banknote in the world that has aclear vertical strip from top to bottom, in that. So that's sort of see theprogression in terms of the payment. I don't know, start from a history whereit was designed to fill a gap in the series of banknotes that's created in1966. And leading to the most impressive most iterations of designs to orderbanknotes. So you had the paper, the first polymer the second polymer, theSanteria Federation, and the current notes are five different versions of that.


BlaizePengilly  41:04

Wow, that's interesting. Joel, when you say youcollect notes, and you collect money, when a new note is released, I'mimagining like when the Harry Potter books were being released, and you likequeuing up at the moon, waiting, like camping out of a night going, give methat $5 note, are you just going out and shopping and paying for everything incash hoping that one comes to you? How do you get your hands on a new note whenit comes out?


JoelKandiah  41:29

This is gonna sound more sinister than itreally sounds. But I've got a network of friends that work in branches acrosswho in ANZ, Commonwealth bank, NAB whatnot, and they just let me know it helpsrun my brother's a branch. So branch managers will. So I was like, when thefires came out, said Oh, it's a job. We got the new fives Come out. Come in,get come get him like cool. So I remember, first day, getting a wad getting$500 worth and then like, there you go. And then the kids were so excitedschool though. We don't want to organize a banknote swaps on those banknotes,what what school 10s of pretty 10s, the 10s were printing to get because I wasin Sydney at times I went straight to reserve bank in the morning of it andlined up with everyone else. There was a lot I did. Yeah, it was pretty easy.20 was pretty hard, but managed to find him an ATM around the corner from me.And that 100 was pretty straight forward and made mind set up. We just orderedin half a million dollars $100 we're just letting it, come to it and get themlike done. Easy. So so it helps. Yeah, pretty much and it's a lot and thenthose friends also get excited, cuz I'm excited. So then people ask me, oh,wasn't the notes. Okay, got this one here. We got this one yet. I was like,live to me. I'll tell you what they are. It's fine.


DanJovevski  42:54

Joel, what about buying the notes, thesedigital or do you use cash?


JoelKandiah  43:03

It depends. So obviously, the live I'm gettingthe bank straight from the notes from the bank. So I go take for a bank outsome of the older notes, for example. So like the one I've one my pocket rightnow, I know it's great content for a audio medium. But you know, I've got theold 100 the other day, and I bought off of eBay. So that was digital. So it'ssometimes it's our running down paying with digital format to buy cash, butthat's the way it is now in this society, you know, we got, you know, 63% oftransactions and now down by card. So is that the way it's gonna be even usingcash for my hobby, I'm still gonna pay paying in a digital form from that.


DanJovevski  43:43

Absolutely. This is really interesting. Thisone next question around the current trends about holding cash versus digital.What are we seeing job moment what we've heard, there's probably a huge shifttowards digital. But now there's a boune back during COVID. What is youranalysis uncover?


JoelKandiah  44:01

Looking at the data from the Reserve Bank overthe last 13 years from 2007 to 2019. We've seen cash transactions fall in terms of numbers from 69% to 27% ofall transactions in there. And the event cards have increased from 26% up to63%. So isn't religious in complete inverse of what of the trends between cashand cards. So and also along with that the total value of cash transactions hasalso reduced from 59% down to 10% as well. So the number of transactions andthe total value of cash transactions are falling quite significantly, in thatregard. And also we need to look at we got to break down where it's cash beingused in terms of its demographics. So those who are over aged 65 they're stillusing half the transactions for cash, just below the age of 19. They're losingthey're using it less than five to 10 five to 10% of their total Transactionsas well. So you've got a demographic gap in terms of who's using cash, andtherefore that demand still gonna be there. But once that older generation sortof, you know, then they're no longer here, and then the younger generations,bring up the, you know, the digital transformation of payments and all thatkind of thing. We're gonna start, we can see a complete fall in cash, but we'renot gonna see cash go away, because like you said, with COVID, people werescared about what would happen in terms of the banking system. We've got a verystrong banking system, we saw that in the cold financial crisis, where we hadstrong reserves, we didn't see any banks collapse, where the government thatbacks all the deposits up to a million dollars in that sense, but the demandfor cash went up. So in April, the Reserve Bank noticed that a lot of peoplewere taking large amount of cash out from the accounts. So they're taking Robinreport at 1% to get $2 million of cash from a branch in advance because ofjustice, a feeling of safety, they saw the share market was crashing. Let's takeit out. Let's bring in cash. Let's put aside and hold it. So especially thehigh denomination


BlaizePengilly  46:03

How much did you say?


JoelKandiah  46:04



BlaizePengilly  46:06

2 Million? Where are you very keeping that issomeone you just putting that in your pool? Putting your pool cover on? Whereare you keeping $2 million of cash


BlaizePengilly  46:19

$2 million isn't that much in weight. That's aproblem. So in $100 notes that only weighs about 26 kilos. Yeah.


BlaizePengilly  46:27

I'm imagingn 3 tonne truck security guards withrifles on the back, driving it from the bag, 26 kilos, that's not much at all.


JoelKandiah  46:37

Unless you're getting a $2 million in five centcoins, you're not needing the truck at all, you know?


BlaizePengilly  46:45

How much space does that take up?


JoelKandiah  46:47

You can easily fit a million dollars in abackpack. That's what I'm trying to say. I want to Crown Casino  once and saw $1.3 million in a small trolley.In all hundreds. It's it's actually not that big in terms of what you think itis. Yeah, it's crazy. And like, you know, the banks locally, especially banksthat have high traffic, they serve a lot of businesses, they're bringing inhalf a million dollars awake during peak times to fill the ATMs in withhundreds. So in the scheme of things, we've got $82 billion and notes incirculation. So million dollars actually isn't really that much when we've cometo think about in that sense. But for an individual to haul a million dollars,cash is still a lot of money as individual sensors just trying to get our mindsa sense of perspective. But overall, in terms of the trends, I guess we'retrying to say is that cash demand is increasing for high denomination notes.But as a store of value rather than a transactional sense. $100 notes only makeup for a percent of total transactions in cash overall. And the other thing onthe other hand is that coins have also increased in demand. Because of COVID.People have been hoarding coins because of COVID. people afraid that wastransmission risk through the transmit footage exchange of coins, so peoplekept hoarding them. That means when we're back to normal, there was a coin shownot as bad as there was in the United States. But we still had a relativeshortage, which meant that a lot of coins that will hold it in the mint, theywere pushed out. And so there was an increased amount of that 20% in coinage in2020.


DanJovevski  48:12



BlaizePengilly  48:13

That's so interesting. I can when when COVIDblows over I can imagine going to pay for something at my local cafe andeveryone getting out their little coin baggie and counting out the 10 silvercents to pay for them use at the end of at the end of the meal. Joel, startwith a lot of people losing savings accounts like we it seems to be that we'removing away from the wads of notes under the mattress as a method of saving.And people seem seem to be moving more online where it's really accessiblemaking savings can and earning interest and stuff. But is it possible to creategood savings habits using physical cash?


JoelKandiah  48:51

I definitely think so. I think it's more aboutthere's a book by James Clear called Atomic Habits which a lot of people whoare driven by this habits process is just about kind of regular habits andmaking them build you a better person. So I think for someone that's finds itvery hard to develop good habits in the first place. And I think depends on thetype of learner you are if you if you are very kinesthetic learner Were youable to touch and feel things caches a good way, especially in terms of budgetsensitive saving sense. So if you if you feel that you find it hard to save inan online digital sense, because you start impulsively wanting to spend withyour credit card or your debit card, you can try and take a little cash andkeep that in your wallet has your own right this is only how much much I can Ican spend in this period because that's how much I've grown my wallet is andmore people have much more of an emotional connection with cash than they dowith credit cards and stuff and that kind of thing. So being able and even justadd like people, you know, you saw any TikToks have they been sharing tips asin, put all your $5 dollar notes in a jar, put gold coins in a jar or setregular targets in that sense and then sort of try and transition From thephysical sense into the digital sense, so that's what I did, I started in aphysical sense. And then being able to create separate bank accounts where Ican sort of transfer across on a regular basis from this is my sort of spendingaccount, my anything account, and I'll just physically transact each day to, tomy savings goal accounts. So lately, that's what I'm doing. I'm putting my goalthis year is to save an extra $10,000. So the goal now is to save $27.40 a day.I think that's what I'm your previous guests. cash from @TashInvests  from TikTok, recently, were $27.40 a day gets you $10,000. Yeah, great. Andso I've been doing that manually on my online account. And then I've allowed itdown the track, I can go into my mindset, okay, I can do ongoing transfers, andthey start a new, physical goal in that sense. But for me, I love to put all myspare change at the end of the day in a jar, I'll put five on it in a tie in adrawer. And then if you believe not, before, you know, the small gains make bigamounts, and that you could have $100 worth of coins. But in the month, youcould have a couple 100 bucks a $5 nights there, you know, and then putting thatin your bank account later into your savings account. So if someone finds itvery hard to save, try and draw an emotional attachment to what you're tryingto do in that sense. Because there's been a lot of studies that show especiallywith general experimental psychology back in 2011, de released a study sayingthat people have a far greater emotional attachment to cash than they do withdigital forms of payment. So if you're someone that's very emotional about theway spent, try and bring that cash on and back into it, so you can try andrationalize your plan from an emotional sense into a rational sense.


DanJovevski  51:37

Absolutely there, Joel, and the topic that wereally love here on the psychology of money. And I think the reference thatyou're making use of Dan Clear his book, and the concept of the pain of payingand seeing that physical sort of cash, leave your wallet, and you're morelikely to have a deeper attachment to the cash that you've got that you cantouch and feel and see, as opposed to the ones and zeros that belong in yourdigital bank account. That's amazing. Joel, I've, I've had a look at youTikTok,and one of the awesome things that I've seen is a gold 50 cent piece. And thatthat looks super baller. But the other thing that I really wanted to ask youis, are you concerned about inflation, or the fact that you're collectingcoins, you're probably going to see, you know, your your notes or your stashworth more than say, you know, the the coins and the notes that I've gothanging around my home.


JoelKandiah  52:29

Um, I'm not too concerned about inflation, youknow, the RBA has inflation target of two to 3%, they've maintained that sameinflation target for the last 56 years or so. Inflation in Australia for last10 years has been around one to 2%. So I'm not I'm not to stress about theinflation value of it. And even then, my collection of currency at the momentis not so much for investment purposes. Anyway, most of my investments onproperty at the moment, so it's, for me, it's a bit of an aesthetic thing. It'sa hobby, and I've moved away from collecting into more educating. So I'm gonnatry and try to inspire a new generation of coin collectors and night collectorsout there and tell them, these are things that you should look out for. Theseare things maybe should notice, or even just generate a little bit of chatteramongst friends. So I noticed and they've noticed this before, I think waslately what the reserve girl strongman has done. Well, is that called the newcultural coins have been coming out for the last 10 years or so. And we'regetting people who never quite caught this was it? Oh, this is interesting.This is beautiful. And then we're finding that some of these coins especiallylike the 2012 carnation doodle coin, they're finishing up to $70 a pop at themoment for just basic $2 coin damaged hoard. Father, for those away, it'sridiculous. You know, so people are really getting into, I think, what's one ofthe great marketing tools done by reserve of running real strong Mint is thatpeople are using coins lists, how can we make it more exciting? Let's try andadd some color into them, as well. And so yeah, the inflation aspect is a nonmatter for me. Um, the issue overall when it comes to serious coin collectors,especially when looking investment is the issue of self managed super funds. Soback around 2010 2011 the African government changed the self managed Superfundrules, the value of red notes and coins plummeted massively by about 50% thisdemand just fell off because there was a rule I'm not sure what exact rules butit had to it forced a lot of collectors and investors to liquidate their coincollections and collections to turn into cash quickly so a lot of people lostsignificant amounts of money on those but now we're starting to see a rebuildnow people looking to diversify investment again. So some people they'relooking at the increase in the values of the investments in terms of clickingnotes and coins. This is some very valuable ones out there. But I think more sonow people are more to enjoying the aesthetic and the hobby and discussionthat's around it rather than becoming a making a more serious investment inthat sounds.


BlaizePengilly  54:49

Awesome. I just wanted to make a comment forvery so listening and can't actually see us right now which is everybodybecause it is a podcast medium. If you had to Any doubt about how passionateJoel is about money, Joel is wearing a custom Australian bank note hoodie, thathe'd resigned himself, which is incredible. I love your mention of money assteady because you're clearly very passionate about it. Like you can tell justby looking at you that incredible jumper. Yeah, I


JoelKandiah  55:18

I love this jumper. I just designed it one day.And honestly, I thought it was a bit of scam when a designer for the companywas it just gave me this weird PayPal receipt in Chinese characters. Okay,cool. I've lost some money there. But I'm pretty glad I popped up in my mouth asmall package, I put it as I described, I think was awesome that I'm the onlyone in the world that has this. So people bumped into me in music festivalsand, and the shops or restaurants say Oh, where do you get this from? So I mademyself a lot. I want to contact the Reserve Bank and said, Can I watch thisdesign? And we can make a split on the in the profits on this hoodie? You know,it could be, you know, suddenly trended because, you know, I love it. It'sunique. So, by does, it shows how passionate I am about this hobby.


BlaizePengilly  56:00

Yeah, it's awesome. It's an epic part of yourcollection. Joel, what is to you the most interesting coin or note or moneyrelated objective collected, or what's the most unique thing in your collectionand how big is your collection.


JoelKandiah  56:15

Um, the collection I have now is known as wasas big as it was maybe about five years ago, I started designing my classroomwith a whole bunch of notes and coins and put up with big money wall in theclassroom. And when we went to school move, my classroom moved to a newbuilding. I started divesting a lot of my collection like our kids lost theirschool, take whatever you want for what was nothing overly rare. And so allthis red stuff I've got is at home safe under lock and key in that sense. Butit's knowing and knowing it because it was it was actually a lot bigger when Iwas probably my teenage years. And then for uni I sort of lost interest in andgot back into it recently. But in terms of most interesting ones, I guess, thecolored coins are very interesting to me. This roaster admin has produced a lotof colored coins for us. But lately, they've really got into it. And some ofthem on the 2012 set had a very had a specially colored slip called 50 centcoin. So literally every state emblem on the coat of arms was colored to itsright color on the kangaroo and it was colored in there. And then they did thatwith the dollar coin as well. So they call the kangaroos brown and it's greatbackground stuff. So I really love the color coat because the technology behindit is so interesting, because there's a so called pad printing process, I meanthe coins, put them on a giant pad and then sort of print the collar on likethey would on a printing machine. Obviously the color styles on the coins fromthere. So the colored coins are probably my favorite. I do have a big interestin Malaysian currency as well because that's what my family's background fromthere. So there's a lot of history about because a lot of colonial history thattransforming to independence and their banknotes tell a love story from thecolonial years right for independence right through to today. So mostly, yeah,I don't know, I don't really have a favorite favorite item. But the coloredcoins and the Malaysian notes are probably wants to stand out for me the most.


DanJovevski  58:09

With your job as a teacher, you'd see firsthandwhat people do and don't learn at school. And last week, we had a guest itwasn't money, man, he went through what he wishes was taught at school, andwhat do you see popping up firsthand in class and what he wants students tolearn take away.


JoelKandiah  58:24

I think that we are under estimating theability of our kids and our children and our students in what they want tolearn about money. I get questions all the time about what should I invest in?Or where should I invest in what do I do in terms of what are my rights atwork? What are what are some ways that I can earn more money, you know, they'renot looking of how to save, they know, they sort of know that right? They canself learn a lot of these basic skills now we still need to teach them but weneed to teach all that stuff earlier. So what we're trying to teach in thelater use for there's actually no set curriculum that does that there's no setAustralian National Curriculum that has a financial literacy component. It'slike, oh, how do you calculate compound interest in math? That's it? Well, howdo you identify some currency in year three or four humanities? Not it'snowhere near enough. And that therefore, when when, when the children are goinginto their adult years, there's such a knowledge gap in the literacy in termsof financial literacy, and it's really, really frustrating. So they want tolearn how to I think the most important thing is that they're gonna be workingfirst before they're earning money. So what are their rights at work? What arethe things I need to learn regarding the National Employment Standards and allthat kind of thing? They want to want to know how to manage their money. So howdo they want to grow their wealth in that sense? So what are some ways thatthey can invest? What are some ways that it can start planning towards a biggerpurchases, and that kind of thing, so getting them learn how to buy a car orlearning them or teaching them? How did I rent a house? How did I save for ahouse? How do I what is the process between buying a house In that sense, yeah,they may be 15 1617 or earlier, but they want to notice that we're getting kidsto fill out a test. txt file number at 15. But yet they don't know what theirrights of liquor. So there's such a disparity between what we want our kids tobe able to do and then suddenly, they turn 18. You should know all this reallyall you need to go and self learn this stuff. And the resources are beingtaught. So some schools are doing a great job in pushing that forward. So a manof mine crane, he teaches at Ashdale Secondary College, he's doing amazingstuff in collaboration with Scott pad, the Barefoot investor where they'vedeveloped an awesome financial literacy program that stems from your 910 1112and a half cents on that developing one of my Well, yeah, and so it in the end,it comes down if your school has a resources and the stuff that passionate tobe able to push this for be able to push their management to giving time thetimetable to be able to teach them financial interesting, I think it needs togo further. We need to be able to lobby our members of parliament and be ableto lobby to write papers to start implementing, I fix financial literacycurriculum within the national curriculum. In that sense, yes, teachers arevery stressed out is it's time poor, but we need to be able to find moreeffective ways or more effective tools to be able to educate our children inbasic financial literacy skills. And so whether it means into creating amassive digital resource hub that all the resources that they're given for theteachers to do that, and then be able to deliver small lessons or workshops orall lectures, in that sense, make it easy for us to be able to help ourstudents with these to develop the skills, the skills great that you can go andlearn geometry, trigonometry, physics, whatever. But what's what's going tohave that really going to help you when you're looking to buy your first house?how's that gonna help you, when you're facing a dispute with your employer, youdon't know what your rights are worker. So we've got a long way to go.


BlaizePengilly  1:01:56

So if you came across a magic bottle and agenie came out, and you were given one wish, what would it be for financialliteracy,


JoelKandiah  1:02:05

the ultimate dream is to be able to have thefederal government put in all the resources possible to develop a nationalfinancial literacy program. So that means creating the resources or gettingpeople involved to help create resources, give them the funding to the schoolsto deliver the program. So whether it be allocating money for relief lessons,allocating extra funds for another teacher to teach across several schools, andbe able to, you know, keep a system in place, maybe, maybe not some formobsessive but some way of being able to track a student's way of a student'sprogress in understanding the financial literacy or their progress andunderstanding their financial literacy from that. So it's, it's, you know, it'sconstantly your opportunity cost a GM could spend all that money on that. Butwhere's it gonna be missing out on Buffy, like, Diamond spending prioritiesaren't right at the moment, in a lot of things. I feel this could save ourchildren's future in them being given that Roskill so they don't make betterdecisions in the future.


DanJovevski  1:03:04

Here here.


JoelKandiah  1:03:06

Here, here cheers,


DanJovevski  1:03:09

Joel, we're talking about the history of money,which is absolutely fascinating. And as we look ahead to the future of money,crypto seems to have taken off. And it seems to have become a little morepervasive than say it was a three or four years ago. And it's becoming more harderthe mainstream conversation, what's your views of crypto? And do you see thatas the future of money?


JoelKandiah  1:03:30

I'm, I'm a very risk averse person,unfortunately. But I guess in the last six months, I've seen a lot of financialproducts that I've been able to give you give me my big, my big moment I'mlooking at investments and looking to spend is liquidity, right? Am I able toreally turn this into cash, and things improved slightly, were you able to getaccess to crypto accounts, being able to give an access to a debit card thatlinks to that crypto account is able to, you know, you're able to access theliquidity straight out a lot more easier. Seeing the crash the other day whencrypto price went down? $5,000 that still scares me the volatility in somethinglike that. You're not gonna see the same thing in currency markets at all? Youknow, it's not, I haven't seen a crash like that since the British Pound crash20% back in the 80s. You know, it's not. It's very, it sorry, it still worries meabout what is the basis of crypto and Where's it coming from in terms of itsderivative? Its derived value in that, right. But do you see the potentialfuture net once we can make it a more stable system, and that most importantthat needs to be government backing of a crypto system, then it can work?Because if there's a government backing on the value of cash in itself, whichactually is also technically derived on nothing, it's not fixed on golden oranything like that. If crypto can be transformed into the future when we'relooking at, I don't know how long of a trend technology has allowed thetransformation right to become a lot more quick and a lot more faster. We couldsee it in 20 years, we say 50% Countries now that are virtually going cashless likeSweden, for example, they have gone very completely completely cashless.They're Iceland the same thing as well. So crypto has a future. But there needsto be appropriate government backing and Prudential Regulation behind it inorder to gain my trust in the system from there.


DanJovevski  1:05:17



BlaizePengilly  1:05:17

So I have one final question for you. And Ihave written down here, money and cricket. Why is that money in cricketrelated? I know you're a big cricket fan. I know you're a big money fan. Arethey related? what's what's with that?


JoelKandiah  1:05:34

I guess I guess the only relation with that isthat when you go for me it has been encrypted cricket captain for quite a whileyou got the final Saturday, this time like 41 degrees. I don't want to play atall but still have to. You got to trust you flip the coin. Right. That's it.But Australia's cricket, I think the linkage between cricket and currenciesthat creates a fabric of our nation. And there's been a lot of, I guess itemshave been created. So the first thing was a 2001 20 cent coin commemorate thepassing of Sir Donald Bradman. We created coins for the ashes, few of themcreated coins for the Cricket World Cup. And I think the most favorite one wasin 2020. The rolls around mid credit, a cultural quantity celebrated the ICCWomen's World Trade 20 World Cup. And that was important because it gained orit gave prominence to women's sport and women's cricket to a much greaterpopulace. So I see, it's not just so much the linkage between cricket andmoney, but being able to educate people about things that they don't know muchabout before. It's got such huge potential. So I don't see linking to thecryptocurrency stuff, I don't see cash dying anytime soon, it's gonna beuseless. But there's ways to still use cash in terms of creating numismaticproducts that people can buy, or to educate people, or to be used as a store ofwealth in that sense. So yeah, there's always gonna be a linkage of crinklingcoins, because we got to toss a coin before apply. But it's more so usingcurrency to educate people about different issues. So we had a firefighter's $2coin come out recently, this year, there's gonna be an indigenous flag turtlecoin is coming up. So it's called coin with black on the top half red in thebottom half and in the gold center to represent a average of five minutes foryour anniversary. So that's gonna be awesome. So, coins being used to educatepeople about social histories is is one of my favorite things to teach peopleabout, which is great.


BlaizePengilly  1:07:25

That sounds super awesome. Will you be liningup to get your hands on the indigenous flag coin?


JoelKandiah  1:07:30

I've already got it. I've got it into 2021already, so I'm pretty happy.


BlaizePengilly  1:07:35

Nice. Very nice. Well, Jole, thank you so muchfor joining us today. That was super interesting. I, I mean, obviously, we alllike money, but I had no idea that it had such a rich and fascinating history.Joel, if our listeners want to find out more about you, where can they findyou?


JoelKandiah  1:07:52

They can find me on tik tok under the historyof money @thehistoryofmoney. Or if you want to reach out and professionalsense, you can find me on LinkedIn under Joel Kandiah.


BlaizePengilly  1:08:06

Alright, beautiful. Thank you so much forjoining us, Joel. We hope you enjoy the rest of your school holidays, and allthe best with your collecting for the years ahead.


JoelKandiah  1:08:15

Brilliant. Thanks, guys. Thanks, Dan. Absolutepleasure to be with you guys. Today.


DanJovevski  1:08:18



BlaizePengilly  1:08:21

Talking about money. What do you think aboutchat with Joel?


DanJovevski  1:08:26

Oh my goodness. Blaize. I have never comeacross somebody that is so passionate about currencies and coins. It justobviously the audience can't say this. But if you saw Joel I mean, the guy wasup and about really super excited and incredibly knowledgeable. You bet so manythings. Arthur was absolutely fascinating, I think people who are currentlycollectors and do have a passion for something. I mean, Joel is just theabsolute exemplary person in that category. And, you know, I think I've got togo check out the Perth Mint. Because some of these collectibles have just on thewebsite before essentially amazing, especially certain colors that have beenintroduced to make things really exciting. But remember, really, they probablyhad nd kids and you know what, there was gonna have some value being some typeof collectible. So I think that all the power to him and the stuff that Joe'sdoing at school with students and getting the students involved. All wasabsolutely amazing. I think they really think that that came home though, wasjust his view on financial education within the school system and curriculum.This is something that's incredibly incredibly important. I didn't have anyfinancial education in school. I'm not sure about you Blaize Joel says to me,


BlaizePengilly  1:09:38

I can't. I can't do basic math. I know


DanJovevski  1:09:43

Yes but you are very creative. Joel, I think ison a mission a crusade to help somebody in the Australian Government. Wake upand say, guys, we need a fully accredited financial education program. That'spart of the school curriculum. That every single student goes through, be thatin primary school or high school that can set people up for the journey intoadulthood. And it isn't. It couldn't be more true today than it was 10 or 15years ago. So that was my big takeaway. How about yours?


BlaizePengilly  1:10:14

My big takeaway was number one that was a sickhoodie. The custom made Australian hoodie. Amazing. And my second biggesttakeaway was that a million dollars fits in a backpack. Like what is with that?I still can't picture a million dollars feeling a backpack. I still see like abig three ton truck security on the back. So yeah, Joel, fascinating guy. Let'shave him back in the future to talk more about currency.


DanJovevski  1:10:42



DanJovevski  1:10:49

Well, that's all we've got time for today,folks, please remember to hit that subscribe button so you don't miss a singlepodcast.


BlaizePengilly  1:10:55

If you want to get in touch, feel free to reachout to us via Instagram. Our handle is getWemoney.


Dan Jovevski  1:11:01

And don't forget, if you're looking to takebetter care of your finances and want a simpler way to do it. Then download theway money up today on Google or Apple play stores.


BlaizePengilly  1:11:10

We'll catch you next week on we'll see youlater.


DanJovevski  1:11:14

See ya.

Disclaimer: The author is not a financial advisor and the information provided is general in nature and was prepared for information purposes only. This article should not be considered to constitute financial advice. Accordingly, reliance should not be placed on this article as the basis for making an investment, financial or other decision. This information does not take into account your investment objectives, particular needs or financial situation.

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