Flex that Hustle Muscle, Buy Now Pay Later & Staying Sane in Covid

Dan & Blaize talk side hustling with special guest Emily the @aussiedebtfreegirl. They also discuss spending during Covid and how millennials are veering away from credit cards and towards Buy Now Pay Later services.

The following is a transcript taken from episode 1 of the We Talk Cents podcast. If you’d prefer to listen to this episode, you may tune in here.


Dan Jovevski, Blaize Pengilly, Emily - Aussiedebtfreegirl.

Blaize Pengilly  00:08

Personal finance, budgeting, cash flow, and investing don't have to be scary words. The Money Bites podcast is here to help you learn more and take control of your personal finances. The Money Bites podcast is not a financial advisor. This podcast is made for entertainment and educational purposes only. All information shared is of a general nature and does not take into account your personal situation. You should consider whether the information is appropriate for your needs and where appropriate, seek professional advice from a financial advisor.

Dan Jovevski  00:42

For more information, please check out wemoney.com.au slash disclaimer. Good day and welcome to the Money Bites podcast. I'm Dan.

Blaize Pengilly  00:51

And I'm Blaize. And we're here to educate, inform and empower you to make better decisions when it comes to your money.

Dan Jovevski  00:56

We'll personal finance, investing, the state of the economy, and everything money related.

Blaize Pengilly  01:01

Today we're talking all things side hustling from our very special guest, Emily, the Aussie debt free girl.

Dan Jovevski  01:06

Buy now pay later, is it good? Is it bad? Is it evil?

Blaize Pengilly  01:10

and COVID. And the effects on personal finance. So should we get into it?

Dan Jovevski  01:14

Let's do it.

Blaize Pengilly  01:16

All right. So 2020 It's been one hell of a year, we've been hit by the bushfires, COVID and so many other things. Dan, how have you been staying sane during COVID? What's changed for you?

Dan Jovevski  01:28

Blaize? Great question. I think we're also sitting here in the studio at the moment, you know, feeling very sort of fortunate about sort of where we are. But for, you know, a lot of other people life has really changed, whether it's loss of employment, whether it's re configuring and getting a new job dying at home. For those who have got kids sort of readjusting to home life, it's been a big shock to the system. I think for me personally, look, I've been incredibly fortunate. The transition from being in employment to working from home has gone relatively smoothly, having had prior experience from working from home, it was a kind of a natural transition. One thing that you know, I really enjoyed as a sub benefit is having to spend more time with my family. And I think that's something that I didn't get when you have to go in the office commute. You know, do all those rituals in the morning from the traffic jams on the way to work. Oh, my goodness, yes, absolutely. I would say some of the things that I've missed is that sort of transition point, you know, when you get in the car, or you know, jump on public transport, there's almost this break between your home life, and also the workplace. And I think find a find a healthy balance at home where you've got your time for yourself. And also time for your family, I think has been an interesting, interesting journey. How about you Blaize?

Blaize Pengilly  02:40

Well, you know, COVID, I guess 2020 It's a bit of a bit of a roller coaster. So I lost my job due to COVID, which wasn't actually the worst thing, it was a little bit unfortunate at the time. And you know, money was a bit of stress. But then, thanks to all those stimulus packages by the government, I managed to survive and actually negotiated a rent reduction with it with my landlord, which was awesome. And then managed to pick up some work from home. So things have actually gone pretty well. And I guess similar to you, like, I've been able to spend more time at home, looking after myself spending time with my family. And yeah, spending some time at home, I got to Marie Kondo my whole house, sell some things on marketplace and actually start a savings account, which is crazy, because I think that this time, I should be making less money than I normally I'm in full time employment, but really putting it where it where it counts and starting a savings account and really having the time to get my life sorted and get my finances sorted. So although it's been difficult, and there have been some challenging parts to COVID, I've actually really enjoyed part of it as well.

Dan Jovevski  03:43

Absolutely, yeah. 100% plays, and I think we should also acknowledge all the brave people that's still to this day, have to go out there and maybe not have the benefit of working from home, that are working in hospitals working in factories, and going through effectively no change, you know, but they've had to go and protect themselves from the elements and from, you know, potentially getting sort of COVID and putting this off that sort of risk. So I think, yeah, a special shout out for all those brave people was still, you know, out there having to go into factories, going to hospitals, and sort of do whatever they have to do to get ahead.

Blaize Pengilly  04:20

And thanks for keeping the world running. We really appreciate it.

Dan Jovevski  04:24

Absolutely. And this is reflection, you know, we're such a fortunate state, you know, anybody that's a knowledge worker at home that gets the opportunity to kind of worked from home. That's, that's awesome Blaize.

Blaize Pengilly  04:33

So Dan, I want to know, how do you think personal spending habits have changed due to COVID?

Dan Jovevski  04:39

That's a fantastic question. And what we've seen from from the recent data from Elian, one of Australia's largest data providers, is that there's been a significant shift in the way that people are spending their money. And some of the really big impacts that we've seen is things like people are using or the government government stimulus, a lot of the superannuation early payouts. To actually sort out a lot of their household finances, and so we're seeing people pay down debt in record record levels, particularly when it comes to small debts they've got sort of lingering around is declaring goes out. But more importantly, you start to really think about what were we spending all of our money?

Blaize Pengilly  05:15

Was it the toilet paper? Or we spending our money or spend it off?

Dan Jovevski  05:18

Well, I think I think there's certainly people getting further stockpiles of all those total roles. But well, fair to say that stock levels returned back in our in our shopping centres, we're also seeing a huge shift is that transport spending has gone down dramatically. And so people are spending less money now when commuting to and from offices or workplaces. Things like paying for tolls, paying for parking, paying for fuel, and now spending a lot more time and energy and money on things like furniture. And that makes a lot of sense when you really think about it because people are decking out their home offices, buying equipment, mortars and things like that. So it'd be interesting to really save all the side of Perth personal finances look like when we experience like Christmas for the very first time during pivot. And that would be really interesting to see.

Blaize Pengilly  06:05

Well, if we're not spending all of our money on public transport, and travel and all of that thing, surely, there'll be some pretty epic presents under the tree for some people, you know, we have the extra cash flow for it. That's it. So Dan, what exactly were those stats from alien.

Dan Jovevski  06:19

So looking at public transport, we've seen a 52% decrease in public transport spending, our travels also gone, gone down 48%. Wow. And for those freaking hole fanatics, no, getting getting upon me a deal, that's going down by 41%. That's probably due to the fact that a lot of these places actually on open, as a lot of Australians are dying to get back in and have their favourite brew

Blaize Pengilly  06:46

down 41% pubs in venues. That's so sad, you know, once the pubs are open, if you can't do it in Melbourne, but we kind of go out there and support and have a beer for support your local pub.

Dan Jovevski  06:57

100%. And plays what's really super interesting is that we've seen an increase in people actually buying alcohol, and also tobacco at the point of sale. So that's increased by 24% was switching habits that people actually continuing the drinking at home, and maybe that's with your close family members, or, or, or close friends in states that sort of allow people to congregate. That's really interesting.

Blaize Pengilly  07:23

Only out but 20% do you think that if you did the math, if you took 41% down like a decrease 41% in pubs and venues? Surely it would be about that same amount up, right titling and alcohol and tobacco. But maybe we're trying to be healthy. And maybe we're cutting down on alcohol consumption altogether?

Dan Jovevski  07:40

Absolutely. One of the most of alarming sort of stuff stabilised what we've seen is online gambling in Christ. And that's gone up by 3%. Wow. Yeah. And I think if we think about this, there's probably people that you know, have got access to all this additional cash, and probably spending it where there's a lot of least amount of friction. So people that used to go into that sort of cheeky bit of the TV, probably now there are platforms where it's much more easy to do online betting was a product COVID.

Blaize Pengilly  08:10

I guess, if not spending money at the pub, if you're not able to travel, if you're not saving for a big international holiday, because God knows when we'll be able to do that, then you can put money into riskier, riskier places, I guess and find your thrills elsewhere. And maybe that is online gambling.

Dan Jovevski  08:28

What do you think has gone up the most and of all the things we could potentially spend our money on? What's going on the most dramatic texto?

Blaize Pengilly  08:36

Oh, okay. So this is the speaking from personal experience, because I have 14 packages arriving from Australia place, my guess is going to say is going to be online shopping.

Dan Jovevski  08:49

You would almost be right. But the biggest increase that we've seen so far Blaize is food delivery. And that's quite a staggering 330%

Blaize Pengilly  09:00

Food delivery??

Dan Jovevski  09:02


Blaize Pengilly  09:03

Oh my goodness. 330% are out. That's a lot. That is a Yeah, that is that is that's too much.

Dan Jovevski  09:11

I would say, well, maybe we can save a lot over rates on the live room. But I think what we're seeing right now is that people and they're sort of social habits of going out there and maybe having a takeaway meal, or Seattle restaurant has kind of been replaced by having that experience more at home. But they were very, very present. That is huge. I think also a globalised online food delivery. And whether people go about maybe consuming food is probably going to be here to stay when you think about our busy lives and how we've got a lot of things that are happening at home. Having that addition convenience factor of your food delivered to you is certainly I think what people need right now instead of having to get out of the shops and do meal prep. Yeah.

Blaize Pengilly  09:52

So I thought it'd be interesting to see what the motivation behind extra food delivery is right? Because a have you spent too much time And realize that you absolutely cannot cook and have absolutely no skills in the kitchen whatsoever. Have you gone through every single recipe, everything you everything you own and tried everything and you're sick of all your cooking, or see is the is the pleasure of receiving a meal that somebody else has cooked and not having to do the cleaning and the dishes. And it'd be interesting to see the motivations behind why the food delivery has increased so dramatically in this time, or is it people just, you know, wanting to support their local businesses and I've been using that excuse myself a little bit. Money, like, it's good for the local cafe. Like I want to keep them afloat, and I'll happily spend my money there every week.

Dan Jovevski  10:44

Blaize I'm gonna run without doing the dishes. That's one of my pet peeves. So, yeah, Samia pet that as part of the stats,

Blaize Pengilly  10:51

The dishes easy when you can chuck them back in that brown bag and put it straight out into the green bin. That's it. Today, we have Emily joining us You may recognise her as the Aussie debt free girl on Instagram. Now Emily is a permanent member of the debt free community. And she inspires 1000s of people with their meal plans, frugal shops, finance goals and savings challenges.

Emily - Aussiedebtfreegirl.  11:17

Welcome, Emily. Hi, guys. Thanks for having me.

Blaize Pengilly  11:20

Now, Emily, tell us a little bit about yourself.

Emily - Aussiedebtfreegirl.  11:23

I'm Emily. I'm a 29 year old mother of two kids. And I'm really passionate about living frugally, saving money and building wealth, which is why I started off the debt free girl and Instagram so that I could help others and inspire them. And I just really enjoy being a part of the close community that we have there.

Blaize Pengilly  11:44

Emily, I believe there is a great congratulations in store because of the debt free girl has just tend to

Emily - Aussiedebtfreegirl.  11:51

Yes, just in start of September we tend to

Blaize Pengilly  11:54

That's amazing. So two years ago, you started your debt free journey. Now what's been some of your big achievements?

Emily - Aussiedebtfreegirl.  12:01

Well, we actually started our debt free journey about four years ago, and I was a lurker on Instagram, eventually, once I found out it was a thing. But in that two years, as of March 31 of March, we've just become completely debt free.

Blaize Pengilly  12:19

Wow congratulations. Say, how much debt have you paid off?

Emily - Aussiedebtfreegirl.  12:22

Right around $60,000, including all the fees and interest?

Blaize Pengilly  12:27

$60,000? Oh, my goodness. Now, did you think you would make it this far? Do you think it was achievable when you started out on this journey?

Emily - Aussiedebtfreegirl.  12:35

I'm probably the odd one out, I knew it was possible. And I was kind of frustrated and how long it was taking us because I have always been debt free. It was my partner that came into the relationship with all of this debt. And then we got a car loan together. So I've always been debt free. And I hate the feeling of owing anybody anything. So it was super frustrating and like anxiety inducing for me to see any debt, let alone giant numbers like this.

Blaize Pengilly  13:06

Well, I mean, 60,000 is a lot. Now what else have you achieved in the past two years?

Emily - Aussiedebtfreegirl.  13:11

So we paid off all of that debt. And we've just saved our first $10,000 in savings for us, which is huge. Yeah, that's incredible. Yeah, because we've always been living, we've made the most money we've ever made. And we've always been living around $40,000 for our family of four, which isn't a ton of money by today's standards, and by the average sort of family income. Is that in is that using $40,000 income or 40 $40,000 in annual expenses, no income a year. And it was actually a lot less than that it was 25,000. And then it's gone up each year. And last year, it was 40,000. And this year, financial year, just gone. It was 51,000. So we're on an upward swing, but it is still a huge amount of money for your average Australian family. So Emily, from your Instagram, we've seen that you do a lot of side hustling and I'm super curious about this. Especially because COVID people are trying to make money anyway that they can and flex that hustle muscle

Blaize Pengilly  14:17

Now, How did you start your side hustle and what is side hustling for you?

Emily - Aussiedebtfreegirl.  14:22

Side hustling is any income that we can make on the side. So it's basically everything that I can do to help provide financially for the family, because I am a stay at home mom. So I do all sorts of side hustles and each year it's been increasing and I and I make bigger goals and I hit those goals and I'm always so surprised at how much that I do and how much I make. And yet each year I extend that goal and I hit them and it's crazy. It just shows what mindset can do making the choice to do something and setting yourself achievable goals and then Working towards them. I do all sorts of things. I do surveys, I do Facebook marketplace, I scan receipts, rewards, programs of jobs, signup, bonuses, anything can everything that I can do to make a little extra money and bring it into the family. I do.

Dan Jovevski  15:19

That's amazing. Emily and dump on the questions. I think a lot of people go on their mind right now listening to your journey, your stories. What was the very first side hustle that you did? And how much did you earn?

Emily - Aussiedebtfreegirl.  15:31

Very, very first was probably just, I think what everybody does selling a few things on Facebook marketplace. decluttering. Maybe I picked up something at the shop that I know for a fact that other mums are looking for and willing to pay twice the price and then popping that up on marketplace, pretty easy things, rewards programs. I think everybody has flybys and lists and does all of that, that all start small and can really struggle. And that leads you into other hustle.

Blaize Pengilly  16:02

And you said receipt scanning before now, I forgive me, I have no idea what receipt scanning is. And I don't know who wants to save my receipts for all the homeless, I'm buying from Woolworths. What is the receipt scanning?

Emily - Aussiedebtfreegirl.  16:14

So there are all sorts of apps out there that wants your information for all sorts of different things. There is one that I use, it's called receipt jar, and I just take a photo of my receipt after I spend money. And then they take that information. And then they compile it with 1000s and 1000s of other people around Australia. And maybe they work out that women in their 30s buy chocolate more often on a Wednesday evening. So they'll sell that information to Coles or Woolworths. And then they will tailor their specials to have more chocolate at the front of the store on special on a Wednesday evening. Well, that works for me. So it's really like they don't want you know, your address or your phone number or any of that information. So like they're selling your information like that they're just compiling it all. And helping companies sort of advertise to you. And I mean, they're getting this information anyway, I might as well be getting a cup.

Dan Jovevski  17:12

That's amazing, Emily, and we wouldn't believe the coincidence of this and in person very, very small place. The founder oversight gel is actually home grown in Perth, and he also happens to be a friend of mine. So shout out to Tyler Spooner, we may have on a future podcast to talk more about receipt capturing and also how you can make money with that. And Emily what was one of the most important and valuable lessons that you learn so far on this journey with side hustling?

Emily - Aussiedebtfreegirl.  17:38

That it, the little ones that you don't think will do much are still worth the time, give them a go give them a good month to serve. Because a lot of the time these things start small, and they really snowball, they get faster and they go much more. I mean, I think like for a receipt jar, for example, some people think, oh, like it's only a few points, it's only a few dollars. But that adds up. I mean, I make 15 to $30 every single month from receipt job. And I mean 15 to $30, for five to 10 minutes of work a month is nothing to sniff out. And that adds up to hundreds of dollars a year. And if we're willing to spend, you know, 510 minutes doing something that doesn't pay us that we don't really enjoy the why would we spend five to 10 minutes a month doing something that will actually pay off like there is I do this, I receive money. So I feel like it's a one step at a time, every dollar counts. And just push push through and you'll get there in the end. It's the same with the debt free journey and savings and all of that it's just one step at a time. Make yourself achievable goals, and then hit them and then extend the goal. Don't just be satisfied and sit down be like well, I did it now don't do anything more.

Blaize Pengilly  19:00

I sounds like consistency and perseverance and the commitment to the side hustle, as well as the savings and the debt free is really what part of the secret to your success is.

Emily - Aussiedebtfreegirl.  19:11

Definitely I've got that kind of savings fire mindset, I can see the end goal and I just know what I have to do to get there. And that's what I'm all about.

Dan Jovevski  19:21

So Emily, what has been your most successful side hustle today?

Emily - Aussiedebtfreegirl.  19:25

That's a hard one. Some of them I've got a couple that are quite big moneymakers and successful for me. But if we're going to do sort of in big groups probably sign up bonuses has been really really good to me. And referrals but also rewards programs and Facebook marketplace as well have been some of my really, really big honours. And I mean, like I said it's marbles last year, I made just around $3,000 inside hustling in 2019 and this is Already, I've made five and a half $1,000. And my goal for 2020 is to hit seven and a half, and then seven and a half $1,000. By December 31. Fingers crossed, well, nothing's crossed, I just got to get my head down. And Obama. I try to set myself big but achievable goals, because there's something so satisfying when you really hit them smashed them, especially when you thought partway through it, you couldn't do it?

Blaize Pengilly  20:31

Yeah, for sure. When you started your debt free guild journey, was there any barriers between you sharing so much? Essentially, personal information about how much money you make how much debt you're in? Did you find any barriers between sharing that with the debt free community in the world? I guess?

Emily - Aussiedebtfreegirl.  20:48

Yes, and no, because I've always been really open with my numbers and everything with my friends and family. And at the same time, just to obviously, protect myself because I do post photos of say what bank I'm with and some identifying information, I had to have a somewhat anonymous account. So I'm Emily, and I'm already debt free go. But you weren't seeing my partner's name, my children's name, you'll see the area that I live in. But you won't necessarily see my home address or anything like that. I'm not getting enough to post that. But I'll happily talk about how much I have in savings and what my interest rates are, and all of that stuff. Because I think that part of the problem with today, and the way people treat their money is that it's this secretive thing. No one talks about what they're doing, why they're doing it or asks for help or inspiration or advice on what they could be doing better. Everybody just puts their head down and hopes that something magical happen, and they'll reach the desired laugh in the end. And I'm sorry, but that's just not going to happen.

Dan Jovevski  21:57

Emily so I've just gone to Instagram and had a look at all these different communities a hashtag instead of a 44,000 posts on that right now. Can you talk to us about your journey as being one of the pioneers in the AWS defray community? And and what you sort of seen from other people going on that similar journey? You've talked about the digitalisation and talking about your own personal finances? Why do you think this is taking place? And why do you think it's taking the world by storm?

Emily - Aussiedebtfreegirl.  22:25

Well, I think part of that is the fire movement, that millennials, Gen Z's, and all of these people are kind of sick of the traditional ways to manage your money in the traditional work until I'm 7075, or whatever it'll be when, when it's time for us to retire. For those that are listening and don't know what the fire movement is, what is it. So fire is two concepts actually, that can be used together or separately. So fire FI is financial independence or financial freedom, meaning get to a point where you've invested or saved enough in income generating sources, that you are no longer reliant on going to work or seeing your boss to get a paycheque. The other half of the via the IRA is retired. Now, you can retire early, I think some people think retiring early is like 6968. And that's sort of what we've traditionally been taught. But some of these people are retiring their 30s, early 30s, in their 40s. And they're able to go out and have these somewhat frugal, but amazing lifestyles where they don't have to be behind a desk in an office all the time. And we that's an awesome take on what fire is.

Dan Jovevski  23:42

And just going back to the question on this real sort of movement, getting built up in people helping out other people, you know, managing the financial affairs and the explosion of the different community being such a pivotal part in being a pioneer in that in that community. Know what this is, and more importantly, you know, having other people going through this journey, and how have you seen that change over time,

Emily - Aussiedebtfreegirl.  24:04

I think more and more people signed a switch on and joining the debt free community. And maybe they don't post the numbers will be posted, we'll post about things we post but we do have a ton of workers that just sit and watch and I think there's something really empowering about seeing somebody like you do these things, not some personal book cover in a in a shop talking about financial wellness, but that mum down the road doing it that you know, 17 year olds is going to uni and being debt free. Like you can really associate you can really see it and people will help you out. If you have questions you can ask them you can message them. You can comment if you don't understand something and you know you're a bit embarrassed. You can find that information when you started your journey. And even now, where do you get your information from?

Blaize Pengilly  24:59

Is it trial and error? Where are you going through your information? And how are you setting yourself up on your journey?

Emily - Aussiedebtfreegirl.  25:04

Well, I've always been really interested in finance, money, managing all my money. So I'm a bit of the old one out. I've always been a huge fan of Dave Ramsey, and my Rich Dad, Poor Dad, and barefoot investor all of those things. And while I would preach to people to pick something, and to stick to it, and follow the plan, because it works, I personally pick and choose what I want to go with and what works for me, or maybe I don't always do the snowball method, when I was paying off debt, sometimes it's avalanche, that kind of thing. And maybe I take more of the super advice and stuff like that from barefoot investor rather than Dave Ramsey. I think it's about working out what's right for you getting the race like researching and just being open to it, I think as well. And I think that's a good part of that the Instagram community, not just the debt free community, but the Instagram community is that you can get information on all sorts of things and you kind of read down the rabbit hole, I might look at something paying off debt, and then and then find somewhere else I'm seeing about retiring, or something else and inspires you to start all these things when you're like, Okay, well, I need to learn more about this, like, what is this magical place I fall into?

Dan Jovevski  26:25

So Emily, think about your future, what are some of the goals that you've set for yourself that you want to achieve in your personal finances?

Emily - Aussiedebtfreegirl.  26:33

Well, I have some big goals. Obviously, I set myself side hustle goals and set goals for everything. But some of my big sort of overarching goals are saving $20,000 in 2020. And then saving $100,000 in five years, sir, big things. And those are all going towards our goals, like buying a house and investing in our future. And paying into our retirement and just building ourselves a really good life is free from worry about finances.

Dan Jovevski  27:11

That's amazing. And we think that's probably the dreams that a lot of people have. And you know, a story that often a lot to talk about is when we start talking about money and finances, we often often sort of think about it just before you know we're going to bed or the pillow. And within the better sort of futures ahead. nothing's really sort of encapsulated the vision that I think a lot of people have, in terms of setting goals about the future, what would be some advice that you'd like to share around goal setting that you could share with the community that helped you along your journey. This is some of those really awesome, ambitious goals that you've set for yourself and your family.

Emily - Aussiedebtfreegirl.  27:44

It's about knowing what you want in the end. So what your big overall arching end goal is and what that really looks like to you. And then breaking it down into smaller more milestone goals. Sir 20, k in 2020, Monday, I want to make sure I say get that 10 k by the middle of the year, really breaking it down. And then I think it's really important to check in with yourself, and to say yourself things like each month, I want to achieve this. And even if you don't achieve that, that's okay. Don't get upset with yourself. Don't get down just for the whole thing in the day, take a breath, reassess, work out what maybe where you went wrong, and see if maybe you need to adjust your timeline, we will call in and see what you can do be kind to yourself, set goals that are achievable, specific, measurable, and achievable is the really, really big ones. And then you want to check in and make sure you're on track. Or if you're not on track, get yourself back on. Because if you set a goal for the end of the year, and you don't check in and you get to November, I mean, probably out of luck.

Blaize Pengilly  28:54

Do you think that of posting like you post a lot of your goals on your Instagram? Do you think that having it posted and shared so publicly, helps keep you accountable and also motivates you more on the road for achieving them?

Emily - Aussiedebtfreegirl.  29:07

Definitely, I think it does over it can be a little overwhelming. If you're getting close to a goal day and you know, you're not going to hit it you feel like you'll be letting down 1000s of people in my case, but I think that's why I think it's so important to be kind and you'll see there have been times that I've set a goal and we haven't we haven't hit it and I will be really open and honest about that on Instagram because I think it's really important so that people see that, hey, even this person that's over here doing all these things I want to do. Sometimes she misses the goal. Sometimes she fails sometimes, you know, it's a really it's evolving the whole time, your finances, your financial journey, your life is evolving, things change and if you have really structured set goals and aren't kind to yourself about them, I think you're just setting yourself up for success. Be a failure.

Blaize Pengilly  30:01

Yeah, I'd agree with that, Emily, and it's you know, following it, Instagram so awesome, because you really do see that you're a human behind the gram. And it's nice to see someone that's so relatable just like another regular Ozzy that is smashing their goals. So I think your honesty and openness on that platform is, you know, a testament to your success and why you inspire so many 1000s of people, it's what is it now? Is it 15,000 followers you've got right about 16. So that's huge. Good on you.

Emily - Aussiedebtfreegirl.  30:29

Thank you. Appreciate it. I didn't think it was going to be what it is. In the beginning. It was just something I enjoyed. And all of my friends and family said, Hey, you should really do this, do it, share it with other people have nots, I think they've got a bit sick of me. And then it just it took off. Like I never imagined having 100 followers little or nearly 16. And it's only been two years. So I'm starting to look at it like how many more people can I help everybody can do what I do. That's the whole point of it. You can collect your cans and return them for cash back, you can sign up to a bank that you don't really want to use, but sign up, put the money in, pull it right out and then take an extra $100 off them and you can do all of these things. You scan your flybys and rewards have, but it all adds up. I mean, I clean somebody's house before I've pulled out a mailbox and put a new mailbox in. I've done all sorts of just weird odd things. I've taken people's trash away and sold people's stuff for them because they just don't want to deal with Facebook marketplace. Anything can everything I can do to get my hands off. Sounds like a super creative and open minded approach to your side hustling which is probably you know, a testament to how successful you've been with it. And I think that's really important being open and also telling people that something that I think people are embarrassed about. Just tell people Hey, you're looking to earn some extra money or Hey, I'm have this goal. I mean, I have friends and family or Hey, I don't want to see you this week. Can you come over and clean my house? I'll pay $50 Hell yeah, I'll be over there. Give me that $50 a lot of the time. It's it's simple stuff. I mean, I got paid $40 to clean someone's oven it took me 20 minutes.

Blaize Pengilly  32:20

That's a pretty good ality right.

Emily - Aussiedebtfreegirl.  32:23

That's what I tend to think of it as if I work out how long roughly it'll take me what the hourly wages. And it's over what I think I'm good. I'm happy.

Dan Jovevski  32:33

Thanks so much, Emily, your story is absolutely inspirational to all other Australians going through very similar journeys. And I think today, you shared a huge amount of help in terms of side hustles your own personal journey, and how you plan and set goals for yourself, which I think will be super, super duper interesting for a lot of people to set themselves up on their own financial journeys. Emily, thank you for joining the show.

Emily - Aussiedebtfreegirl.  32:57

Thank you for having me.

Blaize Pengilly  32:59

Thanks, Emily. And if you're listening and want to follow Emily's journey, you can find her on Instagram at Aussie debt free girl.

Dan Jovevski  33:08

Blaize, what did you think about that conversation with Emily? Well, you may not have gotten a lot out of it. I think my biggest takeaway was just a conversation around the D stigmatisation of talking about debt and finances with a group of complete strangers and then Satan's community come together and help one another. What was your biggest takeaway?

Blaize Pengilly  33:23

For sure, Emily, I mean, that was she's so inspiring. I've been following Instagram for a while. And it's so incredible, saying her setting goals hitting goals. And like we discussed being honest when when she's not eating them or not meeting them. But for me, I think the biggest takeaway is consistency, and persevering and doing the small tasks, even if they might not add up to a lot of money. Now, $15 a month isn't a lot. When you add it up over the year, it can actually make a big difference. And I think that's something that for me personally, I can take that information on board and it's the consistency and the perseverance that's going to help me achieve my goals regardless of how little it is. Every little bit counts. So I think I think she's super inspiring in that part. And yeah, the transparency as well as is pretty awesome. So I was reading the ABC the other day, and they released an article stating that millennials are turning away from credit cards, and towards the buy now pay later services. And the Reserve Bank of Australia shows that Australians have wiped billions of dollars of national credit card debt. And since March just before COVID-19 hit almost 400,000 personal credit card accounts have been closed. Now, Dan, I would love to know what's your opinion on this? Do you think that people are wiping off their credit cards because they're getting all this extra cash? Do you think it's because Millennials are turning towards these buy now pay later services? What's your opinion? I wanna know!

Dan Jovevski  34:52

Awesome Blaize and that's a fantastic question. And before we get into that answer, I want to go a little bit down memory lane and kind Give the background and context to credit cards in particular. So we think about credit cards and credit cards have really been around for the last 30 odd years, you know, our parents have grown up with them, it's become a normal sort of staple of our sort of financial diets to have, you know, a credit card in our sort of back wallets. And since the explosion of Bonaire pilight, we've seen this schism or this difference between two types of people that go towards credit cards and maybe go towards buying Apple products. Plaza will ask you a few questions here. And maybe this will help us really understand the key differences of buying versus credit cards.

Blaize Pengilly  35:31

All right, hit me.

Dan Jovevski  35:32

So when you think about credit cards, what are some of the things that come to mind?

Blaize Pengilly  35:37

I cringe. So I was raised in a household where if you don't have the money for it, you shouldn't buy it. And to be honest, I'm hedonist I love I'm spontaneous, I love spending. So all of those factors combined, would make a credit card a very, very risky financial choice to me, because I know what I'm like, I would just spend and probably put myself into a lot of debt. So for me personally, eight credit cards, like it's, it feels like it's very risky, and it's spending money you don't have and it feels like an easy trap to fall into. So it's something I've always personally shied away from. But also on the other hand, you know, it could they can get you out of sticky situations, if you have, you know, an accident and you need to repair your car, like there's also the convenience factor of having access to a large sum of money should you need it.

Dan Jovevski  36:28

Absolutely Blaize. This goes to some of the sort of core things about credit cards that, you know, we've sort of learned over the last 10 years. And one of the key things that we've sort of learned is that for a majority of people, credit cards can become very difficult to manage. And in particular, when you may have two or three credit cards, and you're trying to manage all the repayments and dudettes. One thing that I think the banks probably haven't done a great job of is making a credit card really easy to manage, when your payments are due, what interest rates, you get charged, you know, that classic interest free period, when does it start? When does it end? You know, it's very, very confusing. And I think this has manifested into a lot of people really start looking at credit cards and saying, well, who's it really benefiting? Is it really benefiting me, and you know, getting to the situations where I want to access my credit card to get myself out of an emergency or collect points. And here's a little secret. The way that banks make money with credit cards, is really they rely on the people who don't make repayments on their full balances each and every single month, there's plenty of people that you've probably heard who have told you, yes, I make my credit card repayments on time. And for majority of the cases, that might be true. But for a lot of people, there is a staggering amount of credit card balances that are left open. And that's how banks make their money.

Blaize Pengilly  37:44

So the bank sitting there Fingers crossed when you're signing up going, gosh, I hope she misses a repayment. Is that how they're doing it? They're secretly hoping and biding their time so that they can make their money?

Dan Jovevski  37:55

Look, I think Blaize there is some truth to that. Because if you've seen everything that's come out of, say, the Royal Commission, I think there is a lot of activities that banks could probably do to make these products more transparent. Now, if we do a hard shift, what do you think about buying a pilot? Or how have you used by now pay loader, and how it affected your life? What's your thoughts on it?

Blaize Pengilly  38:15

so buy now pay later, at first, I found it very exciting. But I used it once or twice. What I like is like there's a company you can buy flights through. So I found a great holiday I wanted to go and I was able to buy myself flights pay later. But for me personally, again, it's spending money I don't really have at the time, so don't like it. And then also the way that the money comes out. I found that once payday happened, I wanted to pay it all off at once. But I couldn't do that. I do think there's some benefit to it like a credit card, you don't have a huge lump sum of cash you have access to so I think it's more controlled, a way of spending money that you don't have, for my personal opinion, I would say it's the lesser of two evils. But then again, you hit with fees if you don't make the repayments. And if you don't know what's coming up, I think they Yeah, I think it's risky, I think it's risky spending money, you don't have full stop, especially if it's a credit card or if it's a buy now pay later service.

Dan Jovevski  39:13

Totally Blaize. What we are seeing is that millennials are flocking to buy now pay later services because the added convenience and ease and to your point. I think a lot of people know what they're in for with buying our products the majority of time. So when you buy something, you know that you've got effectively four payment cycles to pay off that purchase, whether with a credit card, you know, when do you actually repay that that balance is the month after, you always have to remind yourself and do all those mental gymnastics to find out when you're actually currently debt. It's a really key word that you've just mentioned their control. I think millennials have really woken up to the fact that bonnet pilot is the product of their generation. It is something that they're more familiar with. And when you see it everywhere that you really make your purchases, it becomes the thing that people often engage with. Particular don't have, you know the full money or they want to control some of their their cash flow. I think one of the perils that you've mentioned blaze around buying a pallet or, you know, one thing that really concerns me is that what happens when you start getting two or three or four of these different services, and you end up in the same traps as credit cards where you're trying to manage all these different repayments? How have you found it? What have you friends found it was?

Blaize Pengilly  40:22

Oh, I have a friend that's pretty addicted to the buy now pay later service. And she doesn't seem to think it's a problem. But every every couple of weeks, I'll get like a celebratory snapshot going, Yeah, I paid off all my Afterpay shouldn't for me, I'm like, that shouldn't be a celebration. You know, my view is that don't spend money you don't have. But yeah, it's a it's a tricky one. But Dan, can I ask you a question? Absolutely. Say you need to buy something, and it costs 500 bucks. And you'd have you don't have the money right now. But you have to buy it? What is the best option? Is it a putting that on a credit card? Is it be using a buy now pay later service? Or is it see a payday loan? Or what other option is there?

Dan Jovevski  41:06

Blaize, that's a great question. I think if you break down all those three products, let's just look at the cost. If you were to buy something for $500. And if you were to say do it on a credit card, do you have the confidence you're going to pay off that credit card. And so within the interest rate period, they're 30 or 44 days or 35 days, whatever it may be. Number two, we buy now pay later, there is any cost as long as you make your payments on time in those four fortnightly repayments cycles. So you've really got two months to make that $500 payment. Now with a payday loan, you know, some of those costs can be at astronomical interest rates, you know, the current cap rate or legal pricing that a lot of payday lenders can charge is 48 cents.

Blaize Pengilly  41:48

48% so you'll be always paying 750 bucks for my $500 packages.

Dan Jovevski  41:53

Yes, it can be that expensive. So I think people should avoid, you know, pay lines at all costs if they can afford it. The other two options going to buy a pallet or a credit card, or the benefit of buying a pilot is pretty clear. There is no cost to you provided you make those repayments on time. And the same with a credit card. But the difference is with bon pilot, if you do make all those repayments successfully, the cost of the service or barring the foreigner dollars can be lower, as opposed to a credit card, you really have to discipline yourself to make sure you don't make just the minimum repayment and leave a balance for the next month we actually pay interest on. So if we're talking with three options up, if you can use binary power. And if it makes sense that probably something you should look at only if you are confident that you can make those repayments on time, however, because if you can avoid borrowing money, whether that be through a credit card or a loan or any other type of format, that's probably the first and best option you should you should look at the benefits family bank thank mom or bank dad, bank and mom and dad. There are some reports that suggest those that bank another dad is actually the fifth largest bank in Australia.

Blaize Pengilly  43:03

I know it's certainly been my bank for many, many years.

Dan Jovevski  43:09

Absolutely right. I can say that. Yeah. Guilty as charged in my sort of 20s I think there was often times where I'd go to mom and dad, especially for you know, super big expenses that were unexpected, that help you out with nothing. A lot of people do that too. And I think sometimes parents that are more than willing to help out their kids to their situations. I think it's just important that we we don't have abuse back in mom and dad. They were there last lived too. That's a very, very, very good point.

Blaize Pengilly  43:30

And start charging that payday interest, teach you a lesson force you to take control of your finances if they stopped putting interest on their lines.

Dan Jovevski  43:37

That would be a really, really awesome.

Blaize Pengilly  43:40

One that I'm not willing to learn yet. Yeah. Thanks for tuning into Money Bites. Don't forget to like, subscribe and leave a review wherever it is that you listen to your podcasts.

Dan Jovevski  43:55

Thanks for listening and we'll catch you next time.


The author is not a financial advisor and the information provided is general in nature and was prepared for information purposes only. This article should not be considered to constitute financial advice. Accordingly, reliance should not be placed on this article as the basis for making an investment, financial or other decision. This information does not take into account your investment objectives, particular needs or financial situation.

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